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ICQ Chat Save file    
Started on Tue Apr 18 00:52:05 2000
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<Tim & Diana> Sure
<Clarkmeister> one sec..getting kev
<Tim & Diana>
<Tim & Diana> OK
<Tim & Diana>
<Clarkmeister> hi kev
<Kev> hey fellas
<Tim & Diana> 3 Of us in a locked room :)
<Tim & Diana>
<Kev> LOL
<Clarkmeister> we are bypassing whereagles, LOL
<Kev>
<Kev> ok
<Kev>
<Kev>
<Clarkmeister> heres where we are at kev...did u read kgbs latest post
<Clarkmeister>
<Clarkmeister> yes
<Clarkmeister> todays
<Clarkmeister> all those changes except
<Clarkmeister> forest call for 14 with 1 dryad 2 centaur 1 treant andthats it
<Clarkmeister>
<Kev> the one with undecided barb
<Tim & Diana> Actually it was for 12 but you convinced me it should be for 14.
<Tim & Diana>
<Clarkmeister> barbarian gets chaos for 1 ap  oops my bad kgb...
<Clarkmeister> yes, 14 would be better.
<Kev> 3 ap for forest correct.
<Clarkmeister> id summon just treants for 12.
<Tim & Diana> Correcy Kev
<Tim & Diana>
<Kev> ok
<Kev> yea the treant is all that matters
<Clarkmeister> we are debating 2 things now....
<Tim & Diana> And 1 more ab pt at level 5 for Ranger.
<Tim & Diana>
<Clarkmeister> thief speed for 2 ap vs reduced exp table
<Clarkmeister> and alchy fort1 for 2 ap, keeping fort spell for 1 ap
<Clarkmeister>
<Kev> thats 6 ap +1 for spell at 6th
<Kev> 7 ap for 5
<Kev> not bad
<Clarkmeister> yes, thats fair for attacking fortify
<Tim & Diana> Right if you want him on offence. Byut h'es still +5 in city with just spell.
<Tim & Diana>
<Kev> yes
<Clarkmeister> 7 ap instead of 4 or 5
<Kev> thats fair
<Clarkmeister> cool
<Kev> 2 for 1 then spell
<Clarkmeister> what about thief
<Kev> hmm
<Kev> assassins about useless
<Clarkmeister> yes
<Clarkmeister> im thinking he is the seige speed poison hero
<Clarkmeister> barbarian the speed chaos leader hero
<Kev> i like tat
<Clarkmeister> so speed at 2 ap for both is cool
<Clarkmeister>
<Tim & Diana> So you also think thief get it for 2?
<Tim & Diana>
<Clarkmeister> the thing im saying to kgb is that thief can get it at 2 ap and thats fast, BUT he cant teleport away, and he cant really summon buffer units
<Clarkmeister>
<Kev>
<Kev>
<Kev> I would say 2 ap speed but just ditch the assasins
<Tim & Diana> But his base move is 22 and with Dragons or flyers he goes 33 esp early on it can be huge.
<Tim & Diana>
<Tim & Diana> I'm talking about taking neutrals and ruins.
<Tim & Diana>
<Kev> speed is strong
<Clarkmeister> yes, but archery is everywhere now kgb....u try for all flight stack thats suicide vs good players...even the poor players use halflings all over
<Clarkmeister>
<Kev> with the barb at 2 it makes him nicer looking too
<Kev> since siege 5 is so much better than chaos 5
<Tim & Diana> Why lose the Assassins? What are you gonna replace it with?
<Tim & Diana>
<Clarkmeister> true, but barb is STRONGER, and can help with leader or morale
<Kev> im just saying keep em if you want
<Clarkmeister> kgb how about this
<Clarkmeister>
<Kev> I
<Kev> ok where is the barb at
<Clarkmeister> 2 ap speed...exp table back up to 60
<Clarkmeister>
<Kev> he is the theifs  competitions
<Kev>
<Tim & Diana>
<Tim & Diana>
<Kev>
<Tim & Diana> 60 for Thief? Why. He gets nothing to double then anyway. 55 is fine.
<Tim & Diana>
<Clarkmeister> poison spell....a NASTY spell too.
<Tim & Diana> Forgot about that poison spell
<Clarkmeister> thats 64% at 6th
<Tim & Diana>
<Tim & Diana>
<Tim & Diana> I like the poison spell :)
<Tim & Diana>
<Clarkmeister> i love it
<Kev> im just saying the theif is ok at speed 3ap
<Clarkmeister> i am trying to make the ultimate poison curse set
<Clarkmeister>
<Kev> 2ap would be alot nicer but not a must
<Tim & Diana> I knew you would Clark. LOL
<Tim & Diana>
<Kev> i did too
<Clarkmeister> kev, i tried alot to use him...3 ap is toooo sloooow
<Kev> give him another then.
<Tim & Diana> That's why I suggeste 14 or 15 for level 4 for Thief.
<Tim & Diana>
<Clarkmeister> 14 is fine
<Kev> fix his ap then thats better
<Kev> then barb is the quick speed at 2
<Clarkmeister> 14, 28, 50?
<Tim & Diana> 14/30/50?
<Tim & Diana>
<Kev> sure let the theif level fast
<Kev> hes no danger at 6th
<Kev> cept clark and his nasty poison fixation
<Clarkmeister> right, hes poiosn and seige and speed
<Clarkmeister> dude i will force all who play me to use priest, LOLOL
<Clarkmeister>
<Tim & Diana> Right. After 6 you never develop him unless you want the Invis.
<Kev> right
<Kev> not like a pal or other nasty creature
<Tim & Diana>
<Clarkmeister> 14, 30, 50 or 55
<Tim & Diana> so 14/30/50 and stay at 3 pts then.
<Tim & Diana>
<Clarkmeister> is 50 too quick for 6th?
<Kev> after 14 you can slow it or not - speed is the ONE the rest is just incidental usuallly
<Tim & Diana> 50 or 55. Either seems OK to me. Other than if you get him 1st I doubt anyone but you will develop him beyond the speed :)
<Tim & Diana>
<Clarkmeister> true
<Clarkmeister> ok, give him to me for 50 then  ;)
<Clarkmeister>
<Clarkmeister> rofl
<Clarkmeister>
<Tim & Diana> LOL
<Tim & Diana>
<Tim & Diana> 50 it is, but 90 for 7th then?
<Tim & Diana>
<Kev> yea no gay ass chaos +5 theif
<Clarkmeister> 85...what is it now?
<Clarkmeister>
<Tim & Diana> No chaos for Thief at all. Assassins replace Chaos anyway.
<Tim & Diana>
<Kev> ok
<Clarkmeister> sure
<Tim & Diana> It's 95 or 90 now I think.
<Tim & Diana>
<Kev> the bard is my pet question
<Clarkmeister> 85 is fine...90 too i guess....even i aint going to 7th with him anyway
<Clarkmeister>
<Tim & Diana> OK. On to Bard or Barb?
<Tim & Diana>
<Clarkmeister> bard, go 65 and see what happens, lol
<Clarkmeister>
<Kev> hes gotta be worthy of the general anyway
<Clarkmeister> i think hes fair at 65
<Clarkmeister>
<Kev> not expecting him to match heroism/pal
<Tim & Diana> Well he gets +5 grp move and +1 hits for cheap mana cost is nice.
<Tim & Diana>
<Clarkmeister> barb we are done with right? chaos for 1 ap, all else the same?
<Clarkmeister>
<Kev> yes but preist does that with archons/bless
<Kev> ok
<Clarkmeister> ok
<Clarkmeister>
<Tim & Diana> We'll come back to Barb after Bard.
<Tim & Diana>
<Kev> im just saying
<Clarkmeister> priest has bless, thats such an awesome spell i think
<Kev> ARCHONS are huge
<Clarkmeister> yes, them too.
<Tim & Diana> Yeah, MUCH better than Eagles by FAR.
<Tim & Diana>
<Clarkmeister> and if bard is 6 at 65, priest is already 7th at 70
<Clarkmeister>
<Kev> yea i wanted to slap whereagles
<Kev> with his archons vs eagle
<Clarkmeister> and at 70 your priest is 5/5 too
<Clarkmeister>
<Kev> how bout
<Kev> 1 archon + 7 peasants
<Kev> = 8 eagles
<Kev> idiot
<Tim & Diana> Preist is 7th at 80 not 70.
<Tim & Diana>
<Kev> yes
<Tim & Diana> Kev is right. A lot easier to counter +1 morale than +3. Not to mention the fact that Archon can go with Bravery for +5 Morale while Eagle can't.
<Tim & Diana>
<Kev> instant free morale 5
<Kev> unit
<Clarkmeister> go 4/1 then for gen, but 9/2 is best i think.
<Kev> 4/1 is better
<Kev> usually only need one
<Tim & Diana> 4 mana for 1 Eagle will be the answer I think. How about 1 ab for the spell too?
<Tim & Diana>
<Tim & Diana>
<Kev> unless you are swarming with a 6thlevel one
<Clarkmeister> not at 4.....if u go 5/1 or 6/1 for 1 ap
<Clarkmeister>
<Kev> they will be halved clark....
<Kev> no biggie on the ap
<Kev> either way i could see
<Kev> hes still the weak sister
<Kev> of the fighters.
<Tim & Diana>
<Clarkmeister> true......go 2 ap 4/1
<Clarkmeister>
<Clarkmeister> noooo keep it at 2 lol
<Tim & Diana> OK, then 4/1 for 2 pts?
<Tim & Diana>
<Clarkmeister> ok
<Clarkmeister>
<Tim & Diana> Still leaves him weak with no grp move or teleport.
<Tim & Diana>
<Kev> give him a AP
<Kev> no grp move is a KILLER
<Kev> tell the truth clark
<Kev>
<Kev> you know i wont have his slow ass
<Clarkmeister> move bonus tho..and engineering which is SUCH an underutilized ability
<Clarkmeister> yes, no grp mive is killer
<Clarkmeister>
<Kev> its a total dont use flag
<Tim & Diana> Yeah if you get a general you want +5 leader right away which leaves nothing for engineer.
<Tim & Diana>
<Kev> u never get eng
<Kev> you get eagles 5 5
<Kev> period
<Tim & Diana> I never do anyway.
<Tim & Diana>
<Kev>
<Clarkmeister>
<Kev> gen needs some AP love
<Tim & Diana> You talking about fortify?
<Tim & Diana>
<Kev> he is so slow trudging
<Kev> he gets AP for fortify but its 2 per
<Clarkmeister> well, so does warrior...but not alot u can do about their nature at this point
<Clarkmeister>
<Kev> of ciours
<Clarkmeister> warrior will NEVER be anything other than 5th level, eng or rek
<Clarkmeister>
<Kev> but general is aFIGHTER
<Tim & Diana> Warrior is fine just for that reason.
<Tim & Diana>
<Kev> hes supposed to be a butt kicker
<Clarkmeister> btw, give the warrior that 2 fort for 3 ap
<Clarkmeister>
<Clarkmeister> thats nice
<Clarkmeister>
<Tim & Diana> OK, i will to help him be safe in cities. LOL
<Tim & Diana>
<Kev> yes
<Kev> thats great for him
<Kev> he needs some love
<Kev> not the cursed eagles
<Kev> but soem love
<Clarkmeister> how about eng ala alchy
<Clarkmeister>
<Kev> no no
<Clarkmeister> 2 eng for 1 rather than 1 for 1
<Clarkmeister>
<Kev> no gay ass engineering
<Tim & Diana> I agree with Kev on General. He needs some help and the Eagles were supposed to be it to help harass the enemy. I just made it too good by accident.
<Tim & Diana>
<Kev> he needs some positives
<Kev> he is walking at 16 fellas
<Kev> with a siege engine.
<Kev> u gotta make him easier toget tuff
<Clarkmeister> leader is better now tho...green slayer sets are the norem
<Kev> so paladin and bard ROMP over him
<Clarkmeister>
<Kev> i say
<Clarkmeister> when is he at 6th?
<Clarkmeister>
<Kev> he needs a 1 ap positive along with leaed
<Tim & Diana> 55 I think.
<Tim & Diana>
<Clarkmeister> oh hell..just keep him same but 6th at 48
<Clarkmeister>
<Kev>
<Kev>
<Kev>
<Kev>
<Kev>
<Kev> ok
<Kev> 2 xp dont mean shit
<Kev> he needs real AP
<Tim & Diana> Other than the 4/1 Eagles. Does he get extra ab at 5th then?
<Tim & Diana>
<Kev> at least 1
<Kev> with eagles at 2 as well
<Kev> if he cant get 5 5 at fast as the bard pal
<Clarkmeister> 4/1 eagles for 2 ap, 6th at hmmmm
<Clarkmeister>
<Kev> with his other lack of powers
<Kev> he WILL NOT get used.
<Tim & Diana> Unless he can summon or teleport. LOL
<Tim & Diana>
<Clarkmeister> ok, 45 then.
<Clarkmeister>
<Kev> well eagles are not good
<Kev> and tele would freak them aLL out
<Kev> lol
<Tim & Diana> I was kidding about tele :)
<Tim & Diana>
<Kev> he needs that 5 5 fast
<Kev> or grp move spell ARRRGGG
<Clarkmeister> what 5/5 is that leader and fort?
<Clarkmeister>
<Kev> any  5 5
<Tim & Diana> no spells. Eagles is enuff of a stretch.
<Tim & Diana>
<Kev> leader + morale or fort
<Kev>
<Tim & Diana> Fortify if in a city.
<Tim & Diana>
<Kev> ?
<Tim & Diana> +5 fortify in a city from city and his bonus's.
<Tim & Diana>
<Clarkmeister> hey...hes a general...how about berserker, LOL
<Clarkmeister>
<Clarkmeister> j/k
<Clarkmeister>
<Kev> lol
<Tim & Diana> I could move medal chance up to 30 :)
<Tim & Diana>
<Kev> yes
<Kev> do that and the xp
<Kev> i guess the medal option is there then
<Tim & Diana> Yes it is.
<Tim & Diana>
<Kev> but i never use his slow ass
<Kev> i tell you that.
<Kev> lol
<Tim & Diana> OK, I'll drop him to 45. give him a pt at 5th and up the medal chance.
<Tim & Diana>
<Clarkmeister> me neither, but i wouldnt use necro either...but necro is still very playable if thats your style
<Clarkmeister>
<Kev> sounds good
<Kev> agrees with clark
<Clarkmeister> id go no extra ap if drop to 45
<Clarkmeister>
<Clarkmeister> 45 is low
<Clarkmeister>
<Kev> eagles are 2? he can use a ap
<Clarkmeister> and eagles double fasssst then
<Tim & Diana> Well he wastes 2 just for the Eagles. I wanted to give back 1 at 5th for that reason alone.
<Tim & Diana>
<Kev> think of how buff his cousins are
<Clarkmeister> hehe, ok 50 with an extra ap at 5
<Clarkmeister>
<Kev> thats better than 45 without
<Tim & Diana> OK. 50 it is then.
<Tim & Diana>
<Clarkmeister> i love the locked room, LOL
<Clarkmeister>
<Tim & Diana> Me too.  feel like it's Lets make a deal :)
<Tim & Diana>
<Kev> lol
<Kev> ok who is left
<Tim & Diana> Barb?
<Tim & Diana>
<Kev> i like the speed 2 ap chaos for 1 ap
<Kev> have barb summ in set
<Clarkmeister> yes...add one ap at 5th too.....and hes done
<Kev> skip the red very nice
<Clarkmeister>
<Tim & Diana> OK. and drop the rennouned then?
<Tim & Diana>
<Kev>
<Tim & Diana> He has 3 at 5th now.
<Tim & Diana>
<Clarkmeister> keep it, he has extra abilities anyway
<Kev> its irrelevant keep it
<Clarkmeister> addin missles 3 for 1 if u take away reknown
<Clarkmeister>
<Clarkmeister> missles on the barb would be nasty
<Clarkmeister>
<Tim & Diana> I will leave renouned. But what gets tossed for the Chaos then?
<Tim & Diana>
<Kev> oh something has to go
<Kev>
<Clarkmeister> i think he has an open slot or 2
<Kev> toss renown if anything
<Clarkmeister> lose a slayer ability
<Clarkmeister> they suck
<Clarkmeister>
<Kev> oh yea
<Tim & Diana> Man or Demon?
<Tim & Diana>
<Clarkmeister> man
<Clarkmeister>
<Kev> they certainly do
<Tim & Diana> Or is it Dragon?
<Tim & Diana>
<Clarkmeister> demon is at least good vs horde
<Kev> man is the WORST
<Kev> use-less
<Tim & Diana> Good vs Elephants.
<Tim & Diana>
<Kev>
<Kev>
<Kev> i guess
<Clarkmeister> kgb, no one buys them anyway, so u can toss them all and no one will notice
<Clarkmeister>
<Kev> NO ONE uses slayers
<Tim & Diana> You mean no one makes them in regs? He still kills Allies ones too.
<Tim & Diana>
<Clarkmeister> no, no one uses slayer abilities.
<Clarkmeister> we buy leader and stuff, lol
<Clarkmeister>
<Kev>
<Kev>
<Tim & Diana> OH. I see. OK, I will drop a slayer power for the Chaos +1 for 1 ab.
<Kev> yes
<Kev> chaos  1 is cool
<Kev> i think i might grab him for the old green nasty summ set
<Clarkmeister> yes, thats not bad.
<Clarkmeister>
<Tim & Diana>
<Tim & Diana> OK who's next!
<Tim & Diana>
<Tim & Diana> Bard?
<Tim & Diana>
<Clarkmeister> lol
<Kev>
<Kev>
<Clarkmeister> bard....just go 65, let him fly
<Clarkmeister>
<Tim & Diana> OK. Will do.
<Tim & Diana>
<Kev> lower him proportionately however
<Clarkmeister> um necro were u adding 1 ap or 2
<Kev> he needs some love at lower levels too - bard
<Clarkmeister> if 1 moving 6 back to 60 is fine..if 2 then 65
<Clarkmeister>
<Kev> necro only needs ONE if that
<Kev> he is a MOFO
<Clarkmeister> ok, one ap for necro and 60 6th
<Clarkmeister>
<Kev> he is away
<Kev> scroll up tim
<Tim & Diana>
<Tim & Diana> I am back.
<Tim & Diana>
<Tim & Diana> So Necro gets 1 at 5th or not?
<Kev> at most
<Kev> clark likes it
<Kev> i think hes a bitch already
<Tim & Diana>
<Kev> with his free undead dragons etc
<Tim & Diana> Me too. You either go the Horde route or the Spell route.
<Tim & Diana>
<Kev> swoog got pal necro and just stomped the world
<Kev> its a ton of freaking units
<Tim & Diana> Evil eye and other spells + necro +5 OR you get all the horde spells.
<Tim & Diana>
<Kev> if you are invisible and can sneak up on peasant cities
<Kev> you can literally create hundreds of turns fo prod
<Clarkmeister> grog says 14 is too weak for the dryad 2 centaur treant forest call
<Clarkmeister>
<Tim & Diana> He wants it higher?
<Tim & Diana>
<Kev> why dont u just make summon treant
<Kev> for 10
<Kev>
<Kev> its all that matters we all know that.
<Clarkmeister> yes
<Tim & Diana> Well the centaurs with the archery are nice to have.
<Tim & Diana>
<Clarkmeister> they are killer bufffer
<Clarkmeister>
<Kev> nice for post i guess
<Tim & Diana> Or White Knight maps :)
<Tim & Diana>
<Clarkmeister> ok, switch ...2 dryads and 1 centaur, 1 treant
<Clarkmeister> yes
<Tim & Diana> For 14 then right and3 ab pts?
<Tim & Diana>
<Clarkmeister>
<Clarkmeister> yes
<Tim & Diana> It's getting pretty expensive.
<Tim & Diana>
<Kev> it is
<Kev> speed at 3 ap for him too
<Tim & Diana>
<Tim & Diana> Yup
<Tim & Diana>
<Tim & Diana> I say Necro gets 1 pt at 5th is enuff.
<Tim & Diana>
<Clarkmeister> necro 1 ap at 5th and 60 for 6th...rather than 55
<Tim & Diana> why not 65?
<Tim & Diana>
<Kev> or 70 even
<Clarkmeister> hard for me to say, as i would never use a hero like him
<Kev> no one will
<Kev> err
<Kev> no one will summon spell
<Clarkmeister> i need stand alone speedy types.
<Kev> everyone will grp move + nec
<Clarkmeister>
<Kev> yes
<Clarkmeister> if i take a soley support hero, im taking a damn shamman and ripping your head off
<Clarkmeister>
<Kev> agrees with clark
<Kev> anyway
<Kev>
<Clarkmeister> 65 then, i dont care lol...
<Clarkmeister>
<Kev> for nec at 6th
<Kev> ok
<Tim & Diana> 65 then? and 1 pt at 5th to tide you over. LOL
<Tim & Diana>
<Kev> ok
<Kev> i hate those undeads
<Kev>
<Tim & Diana> Who's next then?
<Tim & Diana>
<Clarkmeister> vamp.
<Kev> vampire
<Kev>
<Tim & Diana> OH yeah, who's writing all this down :)
<Tim & Diana>
<Clarkmeister> 6th at 60
<Kev> we are saving the chat buffers heeh
<Clarkmeister> save the chat session
<Tim & Diana> LOL
<Tim & Diana>
<Clarkmeister>
<Kev>
<Kev>
<Tim & Diana> I always do by default I think.
<Tim & Diana>
<Kev> vampire needs major love
<Kev> he is a stepchild.
<Kev> yes
<Kev> i like LD at 8
<Kev> like feast
<Clarkmeister> 6th at 60...........LD to 8 i think...hes so mana intensive....id want to run the curse spell constantly too.
<Kev> all his spells just need to come DOWN
<Tim & Diana> LD to 8 then.
<Tim & Diana>
<Tim & Diana> Rest of the spells are cheap really. What about xp table?
<Tim & Diana>
<Clarkmeister> 60
<Kev> well its not that crucial but yea
<Kev> right
<Clarkmeister> all that doubles is the curse and move
<Kev> no LD
<Clarkmeister> btw...if u lower LD to 8, id consider tacking the grp move on that rather than mist
<Clarkmeister>
<Kev> ?
<Tim & Diana> OK. I'd rather do that so you have to spend  more mana for the move.
<Tim & Diana>
<Clarkmeister> right. but lower him to 60 for 6th
<Clarkmeister>
<Kev> ok
<Tim & Diana> He's 70 now right?
<Tim & Diana>
<Clarkmeister> yes
<Clarkmeister>
<Kev> LD for 8 i would have to try him
<Kev> have to
<Tim & Diana> OK, 60 it is with +2 grp move.
<Tim & Diana>
<Clarkmeister> 8 with grp move is equivalent of bard spell 9 mana for hits + move
<Clarkmeister>
<Kev> whoo haa wiz vampire
<Clarkmeister> grp 3
<Clarkmeister>
<Kev> yea
<Tim & Diana> leave it at +3? OK, will do.
<Tim & Diana>
<Clarkmeister> sure
<Clarkmeister>
<Kev> 3 is cheezy anyway
<Kev> lol
<Clarkmeister> yes
<Clarkmeister>
<Tim & Diana> LOL, yeah the extra 1 is only good on roads.
<Tim & Diana>
<Kev> not at 6th
<Kev> :)
<Clarkmeister> whereagles will have a conniption over one move
<Clarkmeister>
<Clarkmeister> ROFL
<Kev> TAHT is true
<Tim & Diana> He will flip regardless unless I make all heros helpless.
<Tim & Diana>
<Kev> yep
<Kev> no heroes
<Kev> no ruins
<Kev> just peasants
<Kev> and EC
<Kev> and water eles.
<Clarkmeister> wiz....2 ap tele and no WoF?
<Clarkmeister>
<Tim & Diana> LOL. I bet he was a big checkers player as a kid.
<Tim & Diana>
<Tim & Diana>
<Kev> lol
<Kev> sigh buh bye wof
<Tim & Diana> Right on the Wiz and add back in Banish.
<Tim & Diana>
<Clarkmeister> ok...maybe add back fortify too
<Clarkmeister> yes banish for sure
<Tim & Diana> OK, if Banish and Fortify then he has to lose something.
<Tim & Diana>
<Clarkmeister>
<Clarkmeister> move +3
<Kev> dont care about banish one whit
<Kev> true with no herosim
<Clarkmeister> keep your arrow spell, though most wont use it....i like the D+D reference
<Kev> who ares
<Tim & Diana> I like it for the extra strength and arrows.
<Tim & Diana>
<Clarkmeister> lose the move 3 then
<Clarkmeister>
<Kev> no non onnonon
<Kev> clark no
<Kev> hes the only one who has grp move
<Kev> its his cool thing
<Clarkmeister> no, not GRP move, the move 3 for 1 ap thingy
<Tim & Diana> He's talking about the plain +3 move for 1 pt
<Tim & Diana>
<Kev> oh good lord
<Kev> sure
<Kev> lol
<Tim & Diana> And I'll move his base up to 20 instead.
<Tim & Diana>
<Clarkmeister> sure
<Clarkmeister>
<Kev> ok
<Clarkmeister> that way he can still play defense iwth fortify and chain
<Tim & Diana> Yup.
<Tim & Diana>
<Clarkmeister>
<Kev> yes somewhat
<Tim & Diana> He'll still be fine esp with flight.
<Tim & Diana>
<Clarkmeister> ill use him all the time
<Kev> i think i might turn from him now.
<Clarkmeister> the grp move is the key
<Clarkmeister>
<Clarkmeister>
<Tim & Diana> and the handy fly vs tramplers.
<Tim & Diana>
<Clarkmeister> yes, chain is still a buggy spell too.....thats like 120%, not 20% at 6th lol
<Clarkmeister>
<Tim & Diana> Well it's not that good but it seems better than it appears to be.
<Tim & Diana>
<Kev>
<Kev>
<Kev> imps too
<Clarkmeister> yes...every battle i watch with chain is like a thunderstorm
<Kev> they are amazing for lighting 2
<Tim & Diana> Esp in Email when you can watch the whole thing at leisure.
<Tim & Diana>
<Tim & Diana> OK, on to???
<Tim & Diana>
<Tim & Diana>
<Kev> i think thats all of them
<Tim & Diana>
<Tim & Diana>
<Tim & Diana>
<Kev> the pal priest sham are all dealt with
<Kev>  monk?
<Clarkmeister> monk gets cheesy grp 2 move with the cheap spell...mind control.
<Clarkmeister> level 6 at 45 is cheap.
<Clarkmeister>
<Tim & Diana> Right. He's still useful and that will make him a bit better.
<Tim & Diana>
<Tim & Diana> Why, same as Bravery?
<Tim & Diana>
<Clarkmeister> id consider priest lvl 6 to 55 from 50, with paladdin losing fire, priest wil step up even more.
<Clarkmeister>
<Tim & Diana> Preist only gets +2 move now instead of 4 so that slows him down some.
<Tim & Diana>
<Kev> grp 2 suck
<Kev>
<Kev>
<Kev> priest is a cut above most.
<Clarkmeister> hes soo versatile tho.
<Tim & Diana> Yes he's the MOST versatile hero really.
<Tim & Diana>
<Clarkmeister> id slow him down to 55, maybe 60, dont forget that feast doubles at like level 3 in gameplay cause of the bug
<Clarkmeister>
<Kev> yes
<Kev> no if a new hero joins int hat city
<Kev> it doubles
<Kev> hehe
<Tim & Diana> Only doubles if a new hero joins in the city your priest is currently in.
<Tim & Diana>
<Kev>
<Kev>
<Kev>
<Tim & Diana> I spend a lot of time finding that one. LOL
<Tim & Diana>
<Clarkmeister> lolol
<Clarkmeister>
<Clarkmeister> what others.....
<Clarkmeister>
<Clarkmeister> 55 is good. no more.
<Tim & Diana> At 55 tho he starts moving into the Bard level of XP at 65 which is getting close to replacing him..
<Tim & Diana>
<Kev> nah bard never replace at 65
<Clarkmeister> maybe make bravery 2 ap vs 1
<Clarkmeister>
<Kev> bards ap are stingy
<Kev> and no archons
<Kev> no bless
<Tim & Diana> True.
<Tim & Diana>
<Clarkmeister> bless is so key
<Kev> yes vs gay ass pdc sets like clark uses
<Kev> u gotta have him
<Clarkmeister> im gonna force priests in everyonesset
<Clarkmeister>
<Tim & Diana> Well I want more PDC sets with these heros for more strategy.
<Tim & Diana>
<Kev> clark si gonna make that dream come true for you
<Kev> you should have seen his last hero stack
<Kev> bees too
<Tim & Diana> LOL
<Tim & Diana>
<Clarkmeister> i had my oopponents at -5 kgb
<Clarkmeister>
<Kev> had poor mike at -5
<Kev> all game
<Kev> no bless sites
<Clarkmeister> bees and then red green thief
<Clarkmeister>
<Kev> no priest ins set
<Kev> totally fucked
<Kev> -5
<Clarkmeister> -5 is meeeeaaannnnn
<Clarkmeister>
<Tim & Diana> Ouch. Major problems.
<Tim & Diana>
<Tim & Diana> Can you say BZZZZZZ :)
<Tim & Diana>
<Kev> yes
<Clarkmeister> rofl
<Clarkmeister>
<Kev> it was ug-LE
<Kev> i pity the fool
<Kev> at -5
<Clarkmeister> id go 55 for priest and bravery to 2 ap from 1
<Clarkmeister>
<Kev> yes
<Tim & Diana> OK, 55 and then 85 or 90 for 7th?
<Tim & Diana>
<Kev> yes
<Clarkmeister> 85
<Tim & Diana>
<Kev> i have a pdc set now as well.
<Tim & Diana> Bravery for 2 ab pts??
<Tim & Diana>
<Tim & Diana> OK.
<Tim & Diana>
<Kev> iwas so impressed.
<Clarkmeister> yes......definitely
<Clarkmeister>
<Clarkmeister> im a priest afficianado..those 2 changes wont stop me from using him at ALL
<Clarkmeister>
<Kev> me either
<Kev> if you need bless hits you need them period.
<Kev> YES
<Tim & Diana> True and it will slow down Archon summoning.
<Tim & Diana>
<Kev> heinous archons
<Clarkmeister> maybe make bless OR archons 3 vs 2
<Clarkmeister>
<Kev> bless stays at 2
<Clarkmeister> keep bravery at 1
<Tim & Diana> Thos are fine as they are.
<Tim & Diana>
<Kev> u can make archons 5
<Kev> i hate em
<Tim & Diana> Bravery for 2 instead.
<Tim & Diana>
<Clarkmeister> ok, 55 bravery at 2, thats fine
<Clarkmeister>
<Kev> ok
<Tim & Diana> Why you hate Archons?
<Tim & Diana>
<Kev> they are a useful 4 turners
<Kev> vs a firedemon
<Kev> 8/4 feasted
<Clarkmeister> they are hero meat kgb.....any hero meat is a problem....
<Kev> instant morale 5
<Clarkmeister> esp one that enables a LOT of heros to get 5 morale
<Clarkmeister>
<Kev> its a helluva thing to bust out for 9 mana
<Tim & Diana> Very true. So we leaving it as is then?
<Tim & Diana>
<Clarkmeister> and u dont have to waste ally 3 on them too..thats HUGE
<Clarkmeister>
<Kev> that is reasonable i must admit
<Clarkmeister> id go archons 3 ap bravery 1, 55 6th
<Clarkmeister>
<Kev> he has the AP too
<Clarkmeister> sure..hes still summoning archons and braveryized at 4th
<Clarkmeister>
<Tim & Diana> OK, 3 for the Archons and 55 for 6th and 85 for 7th then.
<Tim & Diana>
<Kev> that is a big change.
<Tim & Diana> Yup it is.
<Tim & Diana>
<Clarkmeister> yes, thats fair.
<Clarkmeister> oh..summoner, 2 ap for tele.
<Tim & Diana> I forgot about his one. LOL
<Tim & Diana>
<Kev>
<Kev> lol
<Kev> horde is weak
<Kev> its weaker
<Kev> i notice it
<Tim & Diana> He seems weak now and 1 ab teleport is is only skill till 6th.
<Tim & Diana>
<Tim & Diana> Yeah I toned down the number summoned by a lot.
<Tim & Diana>
<Clarkmeister> tele and horde......teleing in and summoning buffer is still HUGE
<Clarkmeister>
<Kev>
<Kev> but they will ALL die now
<Kev> no leader
<Tim & Diana> Right
<Tim & Diana>
<Clarkmeister> no, cause he teles in with a buddy
<Kev> ah well thats in the realm of 32+ mana
<Kev> ah
<Clarkmeister> no...end of turn crap...u know the drill
<Kev> well i could see it either way
<Kev>
<Kev> ture
<Kev> chaos is nice though
<Tim & Diana> He has no grp move and no positiive bonus's unless you spend all the ab pts on leadership with no horde.
<Tim & Diana>
<Kev> so is horde
<Clarkmeister> chaos is nice.
<Tim & Diana> But he's basically -3 tho.
<Tim & Diana>
<Clarkmeister> i just think tele at 4 exp is too important in middle and endgame.
<Clarkmeister>
<Kev> its a tuff call
<Clarkmeister> its the best abliity in the game..better than berserker better than speed...1ap is wayy too cheap
<Clarkmeister>
<Kev> this is true
<Tim & Diana> But it's now on a hero who's VERY 1 dimensional comapred to Wiz and Alchemy and even others.
<Tim & Diana>
<Kev> its always been 1 for him
<Clarkmeister> true.....lose the fortify from wiz too....no wof no fort.
<Clarkmeister>
<Tim & Diana> I thought we agreed on the fortify since Wiz gets no buffer units to summon.
<Tim & Diana>
<Clarkmeister> i know..but ill keep him in 1. if i like them too much i get worried
<Kev> wiz keeps fort spell
<Kev> i like that
<Clarkmeister> ok
<Kev> summ...i could see 2 ap
<Tim & Diana> Kev needs his Wiz love :)
<Tim & Diana>
<Kev> maybe an extra ap later to make up for it at 5th
<Clarkmeister> keep exp table at 55 90 or whatever its at for wiz tho
<Clarkmeister>
<Tim & Diana> Right I will keep xp table as is.
<Tim & Diana>
<Clarkmeister> maybe even 60/90
<Clarkmeister>
<Kev> wiz needs a LITTLE love cant make meat
<Tim & Diana> Summ gets 3 at 5th now.
<Tim & Diana>
<Kev> oh ok
<Kev> plenty
<Clarkmeister> yes...i like the 60 for 6th for wiz
<Clarkmeister>
<Tim & Diana> He used to get 2 at 2nd which was killer with 2 at 3rd for Horde at 4th level.
<Tim & Diana>
<Clarkmeister> so go back to 2 at 2nd, but 2 ap for tele
<Clarkmeister>
<Kev> yes
<Kev> clark said it
<Kev>
<Kev>
<Tim & Diana> OK. that's fine. I just want to remove Teleport/Horde at 4th,
<Tim & Diana>
<Kev> ok
<Clarkmeister> goal accomplished  =)
<Clarkmeister>
<Tim & Diana> OK. Extra 1 at 2nd then.
<Tim & Diana>
<Kev> thats them all if monk is fine
<Clarkmeister> move wiz to 60 6th.
<Clarkmeister>
<Kev> really?
<Tim & Diana>
<Clarkmeister> more in line with 6th for the other 2 teleporters
<Clarkmeister>
<Tim & Diana> True.
<Tim & Diana>
<Kev> but his dispell is crucial...
<Kev> ok
<Clarkmeister> he teles and has grp move...leveling isnt a problem
<Clarkmeister>
<Kev> true dat
<Kev> never is
<Tim & Diana> Other than keeping up with Paladin who's table is taking a BIG jump.
<Tim & Diana>
<Kev>
<Clarkmeister> pal is 2 ap questing, 3 grp and 80/120 right?
<Clarkmeister>
<Kev> needs to be
<Kev> good
<Clarkmeister> thats fine kev
<Clarkmeister>
<Tim & Diana> Right and 40 for 5th. I was going to make it 140 for 7th which is like 70 due to questing.
<Tim & Diana>
<Clarkmeister> 130 is fine
<Kev> more like 80 or 90 really
<Clarkmeister> go 130
<Clarkmeister>
<Kev> incidental xp doesnt double
<Tim & Diana> Ok, 130 it is.
<Tim & Diana>
<Kev> good
<Kev> hes STILL a monster
<Kev> but at least hes slow
<Clarkmeister> yes, but hes fair now.
<Clarkmeister>
<Tim & Diana> Still only needs about 8 quests to get 130 at 14 a pop :)
<Tim & Diana>
<Clarkmeister> and u need to take AP rewards too...a subtle drawback
<Clarkmeister>
<Kev>
<Kev> hes still my #2 guy
<Kev> :)
<Tim & Diana> Yes esp with grp warding to 3 and questing to 2.
<Kev> sounds fair though
<Kev> lets the bard and gen in to play a bit
<Clarkmeister> yes.
<Tim & Diana>
<Tim & Diana>
<Clarkmeister> hmmm i think thats it.
<Clarkmeister>
<Clarkmeister> vamp...would u use tis vamp kev?
<Clarkmeister>
<Kev> yes
<Kev> ld for 8
<Kev> oh yea
<Tim & Diana> Yeah I hope so. Now just save the chat and format it all up for me :)
<Tim & Diana>
<Kev> wiz blues vampire
<Clarkmeister> hes the anti priest...i love it.
<Tim & Diana> Esp with the curse ability.
<Clarkmeister> curse and LD vs bless and feast
<Clarkmeister>
<Kev> i
<Kev>
<Kev> already thinkinglol
<Clarkmeister> ill run the barb summ monk black green vs u kev, LOLOL
<Clarkmeister>
<Tim & Diana>
<Kev> barb summ 20 max will be a hot ticket too
<Tim & Diana> Lots of combo's which is what I want.
<Kev> let tim do it
<Clarkmeister> ok, cool.......should we post this or just release it.
<Tim & Diana>
<Clarkmeister> yes, u do it tim....start a new thread.
<Tim & Diana> We need to post this for perusal or just do it?
<Tim & Diana>
<Kev> do it
<Clarkmeister> lete veryone bitch for a day of 3 then release them this weekend or whenever u have time
<Clarkmeister>
<Kev> you post the edited version
<Clarkmeister> ummmmmm id do it honestly
<Clarkmeister> dont let whereagles at it, lol
<Clarkmeister>
<Kev> yes
<Kev> or the silly ass emailers
<Tim & Diana> Or just ignore his comments. LOL.
<Tim & Diana>
<Kev> no offense
<Tim & Diana> The emailers have said little since they can be at most on turn 5 with the new heros. LOL'
<Tim & Diana>
<Kev> LOL
<Clarkmeister> id bet that kev, swoog and i have played 80% of the TOTAL of khero games LOL
<Clarkmeister>
<Clarkmeister> im at near 25 -30 khero games
<Tim & Diana> Yeah I knew you guys would use them most, esp Clark who loves to experiment.
<Tim & Diana>
<Kev> me and clark are converting the heathens
<Kev> aye
<Clarkmeister> yes, it comes from the top and ive got everyone thinking that all us top guys are using them so they need too too lol
<Tim & Diana> More fun back into the game with more variety.
<Tim & Diana>
<Kev> hell yes
<Kev> old heroes suck
<Kev> i played today
<Clarkmeister> yes, and u need much more solid gameplay to win now.
<Clarkmeister>
<Kev> borrrring
<Kev> wiz ola
<Kev> sleep win
<Tim & Diana>
<Kev> yes
<Kev> and sets can be more varied
<Clarkmeister> yes.
<Kev> like clark last nite good gravy
<Tim & Diana> Plus you get to see who can find a new strategy the fastest since everyone is starting at ground zero and learning all over again instead of using someone elses ideas.
<Tim & Diana>
<Clarkmeister> that set was so sweet kev lol
<Clarkmeister>
<Kev> that map loved your set
<Clarkmeister> priest thief shammy
<Clarkmeister> bees eles spectres in allies
<Clarkmeister>
<Tim & Diana> Very nasty curse set.
<Tim & Diana>
<Kev> had theif shaman spectres poison bee nasties
<Kev> no bless
<Kev> yes
<Tim & Diana> Anyone of you tried out the Necro with the raise dead spell?
<Tim & Diana>
<Kev> no
<Kev> i just harvested peasants as always
<Clarkmeister> no, just necromancy
<Kev> the move is nice.
<Kev> i would never do anything else but get free UD with him
<Kev> lol
<Clarkmeister> so is tim gonna post this or just release it whenever he can
<Kev> sure
<Clarkmeister>
<Tim & Diana> LOL. Well I was hoping the raise dead spell could make for nice hero traps with curse/posion/disease in front of some Moonies or other nasties.
<Tim & Diana>
<Kev> oh yea that is bad
<Kev> but i think the UDs are still ebtter
<Kev> lol
<Clarkmeister> k
<Kev> yes
<Tim & Diana> I will post a new thread. It's only fair I suppose. LOL. Now I know why Steve only picked 6 of us to test. LOL
<Tim & Diana>
<Kev> yes
<Clarkmeister> oh...thats a reminder. is ther a snowballs chance in hell he could patchify this or no
<Clarkmeister>
<Kev> hell we can do that
<Kev> if he would endorse
<Kev>
<Clarkmeister> ok, didnt htink so
<Clarkmeister>
<Kev>
<Kev>
<Kev>
<Kev>
<Tim & Diana> No chance at all. He'd do it himself but he doesn't even have the source code now since they were bought out it moved offsite so he has to request to see it now.
<Tim & Diana>
<Kev> be nice to have it a self extracting find-and-replace
<Clarkmeister> how about a statement from him with his blessing or something
<Clarkmeister>
<Kev> instead of just the archive
<Tim & Diana> That might be possible tho he's never really had a chance to playtest them.
<Tim & Diana>
<Kev> the implementation of the new heroes is important
<Kev> there were problems last tome
<Clarkmeister> something like i wish i had the time to do this myself but im glad someone did blah blah blah
<Clarkmeister>
<Tim & Diana> Kev, I got a free copy of WinZip. What do I need to do to implement this then?
<Tim & Diana>
<Kev> lol
<Clarkmeister> oh...did u ever find out why in some games the summoning abliities arent there?
<Clarkmeister>
<Kev> that is fine kgb not referring to kgb.zip
<Kev> that was ok
<Kev> but most people got it in 2 parts and couldnt get it to work
<Tim & Diana> Clark. I have no idea. The people I asked all claimed they suddenly started working. I havezero idea why it failed for them.
<Kev> YES
<Tim & Diana>
<Clarkmeister> it happens in random games...kev had it happen
<Kev> that is a PROBLEM
<Kev>
<Kev>
<Kev>
<Kev>
<Kev>
<Kev>
<Kev>
<Kev>
<Kev>
<Kev>
<Kev>
<Kev>
<Kev>
<Kev>
<Kev>
<Kev>
<Kev>
<Kev> ok
<Tim & Diana>
<Kev> good for reminding
<Clarkmeister> it may be date related
<Kev> yes
<Tim & Diana> So the zip archive was fine and unzipped ok then?
<Tim & Diana>
<Kev> but dont let menax fuck it up
<Clarkmeister> brb, kev fil him in
<Clarkmeister>
<Kev> and split it
<Kev> etc
<Kev> the thing is summoner heroes get NO summon spells
<Kev> affects them all...summ ranger general etc etc
<Kev> i think it IS date related
<Kev> only the ksummoners
<Kev> NONE
<Tim & Diana> Really. NO Summon spells at all.
<Tim & Diana>
<Kev> not even imp
<Kev> right
<Tim & Diana> You mean you can't pick any of the spells.
<Kev> they are not there
<Kev> all that was there was chaos and tele and leader for 3 etc
<Kev> for ksummoner
<Kev> then grog said same thing for his ranger
<Kev> no forest call
<Kev> its what deadpool was tlaking aobut in hte origianl thread
<Kev> its TRUE
<Kev> i emailed you a save
<Tim & Diana>  That's just too weird. Nothing at all. Not even garbage in the slots?
<Tim & Diana>
<Kev> with that game with the summ with no horde
<Kev> nothing no
<Kev> garbage
<Kev> blank nothing like he never had it.
<Clarkmeister> yes, its happened to swoog too.
<Kev> you can tell easy with summ
<Tim & Diana> That's too strange. I will have to try testing some dates with the heros. I never saw that in my testing.
<Tim & Diana>
<Kev> cuz level 2 there is no imp
<Kev> ask steve he might know
<Tim & Diana> Something is fucked for sure but I have no idea what since normal heros work fine.
<Tim & Diana>
<Kev> yes we GOTTA fix that
<Clarkmeister> right, and its important to find out what or it wil never get the acceptance it could.
<Kev> or they will all cry to death
<Clarkmeister>
<Clarkmeister> as it is, IF the problem is solved these heros will become ladder standard almost.
<Clarkmeister>
<Kev> agrees with clark
<Kev> everybody WANTS them to succeed
<Clarkmeister> any bugs like that tho would kill it all
<Kev> but that is a fatal ass bug
<Kev> ok
<Kev> its in the mail
<Kev> ok
<Kev> i estimate it at like 5-10% occurence.
<Tim & Diana> That bug MUST get fixed. That's for sure. I'll check the save and see if I can figure anything out. Something must have screwed it up. I wonder if it's in online play only?
<Tim & Diana>
<Kev> its only kheroes
<Kev> not the old ones.
<Clarkmeister> probabaly either
<Clarkmeister> cause deadpools problem was in single player testing i think
<Kev> yes
<Kev> go run some 8 player summon test setse
<Kev> tim
<Kev> take 2-3 and you will get a buggy summoner
<Kev> ok
<Kev> yes
<Kev> load all sides with
<Tim & Diana> OK. I will do that and test it out. So 8 player solo mode should do it with everyone having a summoner then?
<Kev> summ ranger neccro general
<Tim & Diana>
<Clarkmeister> right...just attack them with peasants and attack for exp
<Clarkmeister>
<Tim & Diana> OK. And I will look at the game save.
<Tim & Diana>
<Kev> ok
<Kev> i can do my part and clark his
<Kev> ok
<Kev> no prob
<Clarkmeister> i will.....
<Tim & Diana> If either of you have time to dissect this chat and send me the revelant stuff via Email I'd be ever so gracious as I am sooooo swamped at the moment with new job and new place to live.
<Tim & Diana>
<Kev> nah let him post it
<Clarkmeister> i can just post if for u if u want...
<Kev> its his deal
<Clarkmeister> ok
<Kev> yes
<Clarkmeister>
<Clarkmeister> wait...kev
<Tim & Diana> Nah, let me post it so they know I was actually there for the chat :)
<Tim & Diana>
<Kev> ok
<Kev> i do
<Clarkmeister> u better, i dont have a working word processor in this comp
<Clarkmeister>
<Kev> i will save em and process it
<Clarkmeister> my comp is so messed up lol
<Clarkmeister> k
<Clarkmeister> get it to him FAST slap
<Tim & Diana> Please send as plain ASCII not a Word document :)
<Tim & Diana>
<Clarkmeister>
<Tim & Diana> You still got my Email address at XXX right?
<Tim & Diana>
<Tim & Diana> Where did he go?
<Tim & Diana>
<Clarkmeister> dunno lol
<Clarkmeister> hes in mplayer
<Clarkmeister> want me to get him back? i know hes got your email
<Clarkmeister>
<Tim & Diana> I just wanted to make sure he still had my Email address.
<Tim & Diana>
<Clarkmeister> he does...i do if he needs it...
<Clarkmeister>
<Tim & Diana> OK. I got to get some sleep.
<Tim & Diana>
<Clarkmeister> ok
<Clarkmeister> btw, when u get a chance next year check out my peacelords map.
<Clarkmeister>
<Tim & Diana> I will. I will likely play Email games on it sooner or later since Email game often go on made maps.
<Tim & Diana>
<Clarkmeister> its very illuria like....we are just starting a 2v2v2v2 game on it
<Clarkmeister>
<Clarkmeister>
<Tim & Diana> Cool. I saw that so I am interested in how it goes.
<Tim & Diana>
<Clarkmeister> man..it was hard balancing it for 8 sides, yet allowing it to be good for 2 v 2 in online
<Clarkmeister>
<Tim & Diana> Exactly.
<Tim & Diana>
<Clarkmeister> had to use terrain in nasty mean ways lol
<Clarkmeister>
<Tim & Diana> LOL. Yeah and hope there isn;t too much flying :)
<Tim & Diana>
<Clarkmeister> yes, flight is important...but i figure its such an archery happy world anyway, that wont get out of hand
<Clarkmeister>
<Tim & Diana> True till the Ranger summons a Treant before attacking :)
<Tim & Diana>
<Clarkmeister> yes, pbem makes things more problematic cause in online u dont have time to toggle on and off spells..
<Clarkmeister>
<Tim & Diana> Exactly unless you are sure your opponent is looking elsewhere on the map at the moment.
<Tim & Diana>
<Clarkmeister> yes..i like the bluff attack then do your real thing move
<Clarkmeister>
<Tim & Diana> Yup.
<Tim & Diana>
<Clarkmeister> cool......=)
<Tim & Diana> Anyway, great to hash this thing out completely (I hope) so I can start on it soon. I hope the bug is not a big problem...
<Tim & Diana>
<Clarkmeister> yes...we just need to find that bug and its all systems go.
<Clarkmeister>
<Tim & Diana> Goodnight.
<Tim & Diana>
<Clarkmeister> ok bud....get some sleep
--------------------------------------